Any of you guys do alot of live sound?

I got this new gig at a local club doing live sound. no one really knows what they are doing there. Well anyway I went in last night to "learn" the system. I thought that this would be great I could earn 40 bucks a gig and get some extra cash to get my studio going. Now that I went in, I'm starting to have some second thoughts about the whole thing. I spent most of the night just listening, I go in friday to actually start working. I guess I am just worried because this place is really loud for being in a room it's size. I can't decide if this is going to do more damage in the long run for my hearing and hopefully my recording career, or if it is worth it for the money. I don't like comming home smelling like smoke so often. I don't mind smoke, I've been around it my whole life, I just don't like smelling like it the rest of the night. Oh well I guess I just wanted to hear your guy's experience with this kinda stuff. P.S. the engineer I interned under used to do live sound for some bands. Now when he is mixing, he listens to stuff so loud that sometimes it hurt to sit next to him. I don't want to end up like that. But what can I say, I am a greedy bastard and I want to get the studio going as fast as possible. I figure that by the time my hearing starts to go, the medical community will come up with a cure anyway

Hi Calvin Mmmm, I'd worry about your ears if I were you. Mind you - once your in control you could bring the volume down to a respectable level. What is it with these type of venues and bands. They have it so loud that you end up with just a noise. Loudness destroys music IMO. So I dunno. Maybe you could wear headphones which might protect your ears. But in the long run, is $40 really worth your ears at the end of the day?

$40 is pretty short money for a house engineer. typical going rates here in Bosotn are $125-200 night. Whenever I do a live show I always, ALWAYS wear heairng protection. I learned early on how to mix with them, and suggest you do the same. 100% agreement with the previous poster. exessive volume is jsut amplified noise. get a good mix at an intelligible volume, and not only will the partons appreciate it more, but so will your ears and those of the staff. I suggest going to your local Radio Shack and purchasing one of their digital (not the cheaper analog ones, too innacurate) SPL meters, I think they are around $50. Keep your mixes in the 95db and under range A weighted. At that level you can still get a good powerful dynamic mix, but won't be blasting at levels that are making the music unintelligible I suspect the currnet houe guy (that you interned under) has what we refere to here as burn out syndrome. Never made the big leagues, and has has his/her house gig too long, has major hearing loss and/or titinitus, perhaps an addiction problem, and is stuck in the rut of club life.(I may be totally offbase, and no offense to the dude/duddete, but I've seen this happen to too many house engineers over the years.) Don't follow that example. Get paid real money for your job. Protect your hearing. don't drink or do drugs on the job, afterall you are working, not there to party. (Besides the obvious affect on your hearing and judgement drugs and alcohol has.) refrain from doing more than a couple days in a row without a break. Hope this is helpful.

I totally agree, most of the stuff that goes on there just sounds horrible. but they like it loud. I guess I really don't need the money, it's only going to take me like 5 months just to get the digimax. I hate car payments.

Actually the guy I interned under is a grammy award winning engineer, but I do think he did the live scene for to long. He still makes great mixes, it's just loud. You can check it out at . It really is a beautiful studio.

Something in this thread just doesn't add up.

eh? What would you like to know?

I've done hundreds of live gigs from grammy award winners to garage bands. You've received some great advice vis a vis protecting your hearing at all times. I too have learned to mix with ear plugs in and headphones on especially when the mix position is too close to the PA/stage in a small venue. Here's the best advice I can give you. Before you turn up the main PA, check the mix with just stage gear and stage monitors. On small stages, only vocals and non-amplified instruments like quiet horns or acoustic pianos or guitars need monitoring. Certainly not drums, bass and electric guitar as a general rule. Make sure that everyone on stage is happy and can hear one another. If any one instrument is way too loud, ask that player [diplomatically] to adjust his/her level. Encourage the players to position their amplifiers to enable a balanced stage mix and ask them not to use any more volume than necessary. Remember, the stage mix bleeds into the room. If it is balanced, your job will be much easier. Try to mic or DI everything. [You don't have to use them if you don't need to. But when you want to bring something up during the set, it's the easiest way.] Once you and they are satisfied that the levels are reasonable and balanced, turn up the mains. Start with nothing but the lead vocal. Keep it on top of the mix at all times. Bring in other instruments through the PA to carefully support the vocals. I usually add kik and bass first for a warm, full bottom end, then guitars and keyboards etc. to fill out the sound. Stay focused: produce each song ie ride the vocals and solos. Make sure that all instruments are audible and at the right level for the style of music. Watch the players and try to anticipate changes. Listen for abrupt level changes and make appropriate adjustments. At the board, run your mic inputs cool. Give yourself plenty of headroom [at least 10-20db depending on the dynamics of the performer]. Excessive mic gain at the board can cause distortion, feedback and/or a cloudy, cluttered mix. Unlike recording, you are not striving for maximum level with your inputs. You want to keep your incoming signal levels under control and your mic pickup areas restricted. For a dynamic vocal mic with a typical male vocalist on most live sound boards, turn your mic gain up to 11 o'clock. Resist the impulse to increase the gain. If your vocals are too low in the mix, subgroup them and assign the additional group to the mains. As a general rule, you shouldn't have to run any of your mic gains for any instrument past 12 o'clock if you're doing things right. A few more caveats: 1) Establish a good rapport with the musicians and communicate with them. 2) Bad musicians are hard to mix 3) Play the room 4) Keep smiling. If you would like to know more, I write a newsletter with audio tips for my students. [I teach audio engineering at Douglas College in Vancouver BC] Greg